(containing serial information about: Baker DB Shotguns, Crass DB Shotguns, Lewis DB Shotguns, Manier DB Shotguns, Flues SB and DB Shotguns, NID DB Shotguns, Knick SB Trap Guns, LeFever Nitro Special DB Shotguns, LeFever 'A' Grade, Western Long Range DB Shotguns, Model 37 Standard Model Shotguns, Model 37 Solid Rib Shotguns, Model 37 All Grade. Remington - Navy Single Shot Pistols, Model 8, 81, 24, 241, RB Pistols (Types- not serial), RB Rifles- 1870, 71, RB Rifle Models- 1866-1933, Contract Lee Rifles, Pistols and Revolvers 1857-1918 (incomplete serial number for some), Rifles 1866-1933 (ditto), Shotguns 1874-1910 Serial numbers unknown. Remington Firearms; Remington 1921-present.
- Baker Shotguns Serial Numbers
- Gun Identification By Serial Number
- Baker Batavia Special Shotgun Serial Numbers
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Re: baker 12 gauge hammerless doublebarrel shotgun serial number Posted by Jon Williams on December 22, 2017, 5:42 pm, in reply to 'Re: baker 12 gauge hammerless doublebarrel shotgun serial number' I have a baker double barrel but can not find any numbers on it all except underneath behind the trigger gaurd is what looks like a 100.
But have it looked over by a gunsmith. I had an old Marshwood double barrel handed down to me from my dad that looked just like it, and it shot just fine.
All have 6 number's in the serial number. So if the serial number start's with a (3) it is a model 1900. Also on the 1894 especially on later gun's sometimes there is a 'P' ahead of the serial number, The 'P' signifies the 1894. On the 1900 sometimes there is a 'Q' ahead of the serial number, the 'Q' signifies the model 1900.
I'm looking for any info I could get on a Baker Damascus Double Barrel w/ Serial #8XX. The gentleman I acquired it from had a paper in case stating it was a 'Baker Gold Medallion' but I haven't been able to find any info by doing searches. I'm an extreme newbie when it comes to knowledge but the shotgun looks to me to be in really nice condition with no scratches or dings on the stock, forearm or metal. The engravings are strong and don't show any wear. I would really appreciate any info/opinions people can offer. My reference 'The Breech Loading Shotgun In America, 1860 to 1940' list three makers named Baker, two American and one English.
What Baker guns does that serial number list apply to? Baker was making his trigger-break hammer double and three-barrel guns in Lisle, New York, in 1876 and then Syracuse, New York, by 1877, as W.H. By 1879 the magazine ads show L.C. Smith as being the dominant partner as L.C. Smith maker of Baker Pat'd Gun.
The round knob on the grip is not characteristic of 'cheaper' guns, this is an added expense. Also no maker's name is odd. Makes me think it is Belgian in origin but with no proof marks on the barrel flats that's unlikely.
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Use only 2 3/4' shells. But have it looked over by a gunsmith. I had an old Marshwood double barrel handed down to me from my dad that looked just like it, and it shot just fine. What condition is the barrel in?
A few years ago, circa 1995, there was a young guy who was trying to write a history of the company and its guns. I haven't heard from him in years and haven't seen the book anywhere so I guess that it has not been published.
It does have the receiver and lock work of the Riverside Arms 315 which was a Stevens name, I think Steven's bought them in the mid 1910s. What strikes me still is the stock, the Riverside was a price point gun.
Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Syracuse, NY 1887-1889 New Baker with Underbolt $30 Syracuse Forging and Gun Co., Batavia, NY 1889-1890 New Baker with Underbolt $30 Baker Gun &Forging Co. Batavia, NY 1890-1919 Hammerguns New Baker with underbolt 1890-1892 $30 New Baker with top bolt 1892-1896 $22.50 Model 1896 (same as top bolt model) 1896-1897 $20 a sellout to Simmons Hardware Model 1897 Sidelock top bolt 1897-1912 $25 Hammerless Guns A Grade 1892-1908 $50 to $42.75 Three blade Damascus barrels, same engraving as B grade, better wood and finish.
As far as I know, there is nothing like a Baker Collector's Club, but several years ago I met some folks through the L.C. Smith Collectors Association who knew a great deal about Baker guns. The is a collector's market for Baker guns, but it's very limited, the higher end models are the most sought after, and condition means everything.
Baker is ill with TB and Ellis brings in Frank A. Hollenbeck to be plant superintendant. The companies name is soon changed to Baker Gun and Forging Co. And the 'New Baker' is changed from being underbolted to being bolted by a wedge thru a rib extension. Hollenbeck is granted three double gun patents while he is in Batavia and two are assigned to the Baker Gun & Forging Co. I have now seen an early B-Grade with these three patent dates, but most hammerless Bakers I’ve looked at don’t have any patent dates on them.
The guy at the gun show took it apart and the serial number on the inside reads 35762 and it matches the same number on the wood. From all the searching I have done it looks like an old Stevens but I am not sure since it has no other markings on it. Any help would be appreciated in identifying what it is and how old.
, and a number of others. Most of these were sourced from the Batavia line. Baker Gun & Forging Co. Added a lower priced line of sidelocks called Batavia guns in 1903. There were several variations of the Batavia line in the 1909 'The Baker Gunner': the Batavia Leader with twist barrels at $25, the Batavia Special with steel barrels at $21.75, the Batavia Damascus at $28, the Batavia Brush with 26-inch Twist barrels and a straight-grip stock at $24, the Batavia Ejector with steel barrels at $35 and with Damascus barrels for $37.50. To reduce costs the Batavia line did not have the 'firing pin block safety' or the 'draw block' which passes transversely through the barrel lug and mates into recesses in the frame. The sidelock Black Beauty replaced the Batavia Special, Leader, and Damascus guns about 1916.
Frank had earlier worked with Baker in Lisle, NY, and later with Baker and L.C. Smith in Syracuse. Baker grades changed over the years, and the A and B grades were not marked on the frame after about 1896. Early Paragons and higher grades were usually not grade marked until about 1906; 'PKE' for Paragon Krupp Ejector.
A major marketer, manufacturer and importer of low priced guns. Folsom added the 20-gauge to the Baker line that they produced. Folsom-made Baker guns normally have an F before or after the serial number. In the very last Baker ads that I've found in old sporting magazines from April and May 1928, and October 1929, Folsom also offered a 410-bore Batavia Leader, though I've never seen one.
Hollenbeck had three patents granted while he was in Batavia and two are assigned to the Baker Gun & Forging Co. From your brief description it sounds like you have a Baker B-grade. The Baker Gun Quarterly, Volume 5, No. 3, May 1900 -- At this date they only appeared to offer 5 guns -- Model 1897 hammer gun with twist barrels $25 net, Model 1897 Hammer gun with Damascus barrels $27.80 net, the B-Grade with 'London Damascus twist' barrels for $35 net, the A-Grade with Fine Four-Blade Damascus barrels $42.75 net, and the Paragon Grade with fine four-blade Damascus barrels with extra fine figure $60 net. There is a half a sentence that eludes to higher priced guns built to special order.
I would echo this reply to the T. Use only 2 3/4' shells. But have it looked over by a gunsmith.
Davis, but the forward screw is atypical, but the round knob and the steep 'blocky' angles between the lever make me lean more that way. My wonder is why though no roll stamp marks of maker, this was common even for companies that made 'hardware' guns, companies like Crescent Arms, Baker, N.R.
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Serial Number Year of Manufacture 425000 - 4 425300 - 4 439200 - 4 451100 - 4 454600 - 4 457300 - 4 458400 - 4 459140 - 4 459163 - 4 459196 - 4 459638 - 4 459650 - 4 460800 - 4 462900 - 4 464700 - 4 464828 - 4 464851 - 4 464900 - 4 (specials) 465200 - 4 466000 - 4 467100 - 4 467147 - 4 467200 - 4 468100 - 4 468700 - 4 468795 - 4 468800 - 4 469950 - 4 470000 - 4. Serial Number Year of Manufacture 100000 - 1 101600 - 1 119900 - 1 158700 - 1 185400 - 2 214400 - 2 233100 - 2 252700 - 2 273300 - 2 297200 - 2 298700 - 2 298750 - 2 299250 - 2 325000 - 3 327300 - 3 336400 - 3 345100 - 3 345900 - 3 347100 - 3 352100 - 3 355000 - 3 356300 - 3 357300 - 3. Serial Number Year of Manufacture 509700 - 5 574001 - 6 602001 - 6 652001 - 7 704001 - 7 727001 - 7 759001 - 7 704001 - 7 797001 - 8 820001 - 8** 867001 - 8 891001 - 9 927001 - 9 966001 - 9 999501 - 10 1042001 - 3710 371091501 - 3711 371150501 - 3712 371211501 - 3712 371275001 - 3713 381000001 - 381030000**** 1901 - 3715 371517501 - 3715 371596001 - 3716 371626001 - 3716 371648001 - 3716 371678001 - 371709000.
Baker Shotguns Serial Numbers
It seems each series of Baker hammerless doubles had their own serial number blocks -- The Paragons and higher one block, A & B grades another block, R & S grades in another block, Black Beauty and Black Beauty Special in another block.
Hammers were rebounding. First was the recessed hammer noses, & later flat. Four screws at the end of the lockplate, made in 10 & 12 gauges.
Also on both models the 1894 and 1900, there is the 1894 patent date on the forend iron. For the model 1900, they did away with the point on top of the buttplate and went to a cheaper straighter buttplate.
It was offered by Baker about two years later with the Batavia name. Baker also produced 'trade named' guns under 'New Era Gun Works' and 'Clark's Imperial Omaha, Neb.' , and a number of others. Most of these were sourced from the Batavia line. Baker Gun & Forging Co. Added a lower priced line of sidelocks called Batavia guns in 1903. There were several variations of the Batavia line in the 1909 'The Baker Gunner': the Batavia Leader with twist barrels at $25, the Batavia Special with steel barrels at $21.75, the Batavia Damascus at $28, the Batavia Brush with 26-inch Twist barrels and a straight-grip stock at $24, the Batavia Ejector with steel barrels at $35 and with Damascus barrels for $37.50.
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I had an old Marshwood double barrel handed down to me from my dad that looked just like it, and it shot just fine. What condition is the barrel in? Are there any deep pits in the steel? If so I wouldn't fire it until a gunsmith has seen it.
At the time of the move W.H. Baker was ill with TB and/or silicosis and they brought in Frank A. Hollenbeck as plant superintendent 1890-1892. Frank Hollenbeck had three patents granted while he was in Batavia, and two were assigned to Baker Gun & Forging; October 13, 1891 and August 23, 1892 Nos. 461182 and 481327.
Baker named them homotensile steel to indicate they were homogeneous (one piece) tensile(strong). Unless the chambers have been opened with a reamer they are likely shorter than 2 3/4', probably 2 1/2 or 2 5/8' I believ ethe barrels of batavia specials made between 1900-1919 were made by Crescent Arms. When Folsom acquired Baker Gun the barrels were made Belgium however it is this piece of Baker Gun history I could have backwards, I need to check my reference material to be sure. F in the serial number indicats a 1920 and later Baker, I think they stayed in production until 1938.
Was formed in Syracuse, and it was financed by L. Smith and his brother Leroy. This partnership lasted 1877-1880. Baker eventually went to Ithaca, N.Y. In 1883, and along with others in Ithaca established the Ithaca Gun Co. Smith soon followed from Syracuse. Baker left Ithaca early 1887 and returned to Syracuse to work with his brother Dr.
Drew In my reference book, 'The Breech Loading Shotgun In America 1865 To 1940' written by Joseph T. Vorisek under the section on Baker Gun And Forging Company, Serial Number Ranges For Baker Shotguns, page 104, it list the Batavia Special production starting in 1908 with serial number 150,000 and continuing until 1915 and ending with serial number 153,200. The Batavia Leader Model production starts in 1896 with serial number 75,000 and continues until 1915 ending with serial number154,000. I suppose you pays your money and takes your choice.
I am really hoping to figure out the model and approximate year of this gun. That is no mistake that the barrels are slightly different, because they are designed that way. On a side by side one barrel is a slightly different diameter. This thread made me take out mine. It will be the next thing to hit the gunsmith for a thouough checking. I want to shoot it, mine looks mint to me as well, but I am no expert, so I will let the guys who get paid make the call for me.
As far as the receiver parts go about the only difference is fit and finish between the 1894 and the 1900. Another difference is the 1894 has a Purdey forend fastener (push button) and the 1900 has the snap on Baker type forend fastener. Gun's with flat ribs will be earlier guns, & will usually have the firing pin's as part of the hammer.
By this time W.H. Baker is ill with TB and Ellis brings in Frank A. Hollenbeck to be plant superintendant. The companies name is soon changed to Baker Gun and Forging Co. And the 'New Baker' is changed from being underbolted to being bolted by a wedge thru a rib extension. Hollenbeck is granted three double gun patents while he is in Batavia and two are assigned to the Baker Gun & Forging Co.
I'm looking for any info I could get on a Baker Damascus Double Barrel w/ Serial #8XX. The gentleman I acquired it from had a paper in case stating it was a 'Baker Gold Medallion' but I haven't been able to find any info by doing searches. I'm an extreme newbie when it comes to knowledge but the shotgun looks to me to be in really nice condition with no scratches or dings on the stock, forearm or metal. The engravings are strong and don't show any wear. I would really appreciate any info/opinions people can offer. My reference 'The Breech Loading Shotgun In America, 1860 to 1940' list three makers named Baker, two American and one English.
Making muzzle loaders, conversions, two and three barreled breechloaders, all of which were marked W. Baker until 1877. Was formed in Syracuse, and it was financed by L. Smith and his brother Leroy.
Thanks for posting your pics and congrats on owning a Baker, even it is a little ruff. If you haven't already found the site, you might check out The site includes a little history that helps explain why some people associate Baker with one city and other folks place him in another city. Baker was quite a fellow and got around quite a bit.
As Crescent-Davis and continue to make guns in Norwich thru the first half of the 1930s. The gun pictured at the start of this thread is a Paragon Grade. According to the article on Baker Guns in the Guns Illustrated 1997 by Hallquist & Hardin, the Paragon was added to the line in 1894, and serial numbers were from 1 to 1200. It seems each series of Baker hammerless doubles had their own serial number blocks -- The Paragons and higher one block, A & B grades another block, R & S grades in another block, Black Beauty and Black Beauty Special in another block.
Baker Gun Co. Was closed in 1930, 41 years after the death of W.H. Baker, and the factory was converted to the manufacture of automobile parts. About 150,000 Baker guns were produced prior to the Folsom take-over; Folsom production numbers do not exist.
Gun Identification By Serial Number
In 1888 Syracuse Forging and Gun Co. Burns and they decide to relocate to Batavia, New York.
If you haven't already found the site, you might check out The site includes a little history that helps explain why some people associate Baker with one city and other folks place him in another city. Baker was quite a fellow and got around quite a bit. Evidently, he often got around just a few steps in front of the law. The most notorious example is probably the night he had to climb out the window of the hotel where he was staying to avoid arrest! More well documented is the lawsuit by Stevens against Baker Gun for patent infringement. My interest stems from the fact that my late wife's uncle worked for Baker and eventually retired from it's successor. I learned a great deal in talking with him, including the stories about clearing out all the company records and throwing them in the trash!
H & D Folsom revived the Batavia Leader name but with steel barrels like the old Batavia Special. We'll need to see some pictures of your gun to really tell you much about it. #266182 - 02/17/12 10:49 AM Re: Infomation on Baker double barrelled shotgun [] Sidelock Registered: 12/31/01 Posts: 5345 Loc: Bozeman, Mt. Updated every minute of everyday! Copyright (c) 1993 - 2017 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. Doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469.
Baker Shotgun Values
Baker Batavia Special Shotgun Serial Numbers
The Batavia Leader number series were from 75,000 to about 106,000; including the Batavia Brush in the late part of the series. There were also Batavia Leaders late in the Baker Gun and Forging production numbered in the non-exclusive 49,000-51,000 range. Batavia Specials were numbered in the 150,000 to 171,000 range exclusively. There are a small number of exceptions with guns in the 39,000 48,000 range which were probably finished late with whatever unused receivers, etc were available. When Baker Gun & Forging sold their gun business to H.& D.
I was wondering if any one knew anything about my old double-barreled shotgun. It is marked Baker Gun Company-Batavia N.Y. No 2504 and has bird designs on metal side of gun by trigger.
Of course an English made gun will have English proof marks on the bottom of the barrels. The makers are: W.H. Baker & Co who was located at 20 Walton Street Syracuse,NY from 1878 to 1880; Baker Gun & Forging Company who operated as Syracuse Forging & Gun Co from 1878 to 1890 and Baker Gun & Forging from 1890 to 1919. The English maker was named Fredrick Thomas Baker was located at various addresses in London England from 1858 to 1898 and later. In the reference, there is a section marked OBSERVED SPECIMENS OF BAKER SHOTGUNS and couple have the markings BAKER GUN CO but on the frame only, There is mention of a model number (MODEL 1897) and the serial number marked on the trigger guard on one hammer double.